It’s unbelievable, that last doctor talking about how her socially transitioned child could not bare the thought of going through puberty as a boy. Of course he couldn’t. He was given the mental framework that he was actually a girl. His parents, for loving reasons, did this to him. Their belief system, one that sooner or later will run into the guardrails of a real life sexed body, did this to him. So sad.
She’s a physician, and she justified the use of non-evidence-based treatments for children with gender dysphoria by comparing them to the experimental treatments given to AIDS sufferers in the early years of the epidemic. I think someone must have looked at her aghast because it was at that point that she melted down emotionally.
People have so many un-examined unconscious issues that they bring along to these kinds of situations that they then use to process them. That was on full display with that mom, wasn’t it?
Yes, indeed, but I think most of us expect a medical doctor to reason better than this. Positional Standpoint Epistemology — the driving force behind a number of bad ideas that have gained currency in recent years — holds that lived experience of a condition or a problem confers superior expertise on that condition or problem. What we see here, though, is someone whose self-esteem as a parent demands tortured logic that leads her to consider her child’s psychological distress as akin to a terminal illness caused by a virus. Her involvement with and her investment in the medicalization of her child seems to have made her incapable of a logical or objective view of things, and yet there are more than a few people who would elevate her voice as one particularly worthy of attention. I don’t mean at all to suggest that affected parties have no meaningful input to offer — but the quality of thought by which that experience is interpreted matters immensely. Too many prominent voices are like hers: irrational, defensive, self-serving, emotionally manipulative — and ultimately misleading and unhelpful.
Yup, social transition begins with assurances that changing gender ID is harmless. But it sets kids up for a crisis when puberty begins. Its child abuse. And parents who were led into this fraud expect others to bail them out from their misguided choice by leading others into it.
The suicide narrative has really poisoned the discourse in this area, hasn't it? It drives parents wild with terror, gives activists a handy way to motivate legislators, and makes disagreement seem cruel and heartless.
I think she was terrified having seen a sibling commit suicide when she was young and then seeing her child threaten it also. But yes, this child was primed to be absolutely terrified of puberty also, rather than taught how to get used to the only body he will ever have.
Unbelievable. Over 20 papers? there were around 50 for each review (hormones, pubety blockers).
And Turban's referral to the summary...it wasn't news coverage the first questioner was quoting, it was Cass' summary of the systematic reviews.
He is quoting Chen et al, 2023? For benefit? Are you kidding? FTM small benefit, comparable with hormones, for 2 outcomes. **No benefit** for MTF. And yes, as the questioner mentioned, 2 suicides.
They hid 6 of the 8 psychosocial outcomes they said they'd report. Didn't report them at all.
I know it s not easy too do and costly to have it done but a volunteer may be able to sit patiently and type up the words said by stopping the tape every few words; I have done it myself personally. Transcripts can also be useful to share these and in court cases.
These recordings show that, despite what the medical institutions are saying in their press releases, physicians are having doubts--and they are starting to voice those doubts. That's progress.
I thought I recognized Drescher’s voice at around 25:25. It’s hard to understand how someone who has fought against conversion therapy for many decades is now advocating for transing gay kids. Elsewhere he has been heard saying he doesn’t think all that highly of Turban, and now he is laying his own legitimacy at Turban’s feet. Bizarre!
Drescher attacked Levine et al's paper saying informed consent was not working in the US because the clinicians were misinformed. The rebuttal to that ("What are we doing to these children"? by Levine et al., 2022) is excellent.
I hope that person who has medicalized her child because her child was suicidal has been informed that this intervention is not suicide prevention, so she can protect her child and make sure her child gets actual suicide prevention.
Absolutely what I was thinking. Anybody that is Trans and associated with activism is already in a pressure cooker of the fear-mongering of that community. They are constantly in a panic. And take every opportunity to drum up hysteria in their own communities in response to basic common-sense laws meant to protect the rights of the majority of the population.
What is so ridiculous about their response to the bathroom bill is that if a person passes as the other sex - no one is going to stop them from using the bathroom in public places. But if they do not pass - then them going in their same sex toilet is appropriate. Such ridiculous hysteria that they drum up in their own communities.
As far as workplace bathrooms - I guess that would be up to the HR. But honestly every office should have at least ONE Unisex bathroom available for the office.
It was interesting to be a fly on the wall. I’m curious how this “flash mob” of professionals came about. And thank you for not cutting out that emotional bit from the woman with the trans daughter.
I was impressed that the Canadian doctor mentioned one earlier psychiatric disaster: the “childhood bipolar” craze of the late 1990’s and early 2000’s. That diagnostic fad did tremendous harm to children through intensive use of anti-psychotic drugs. It also involved a blindness to other causes of distress: obvious severe trauma especially in kids in foster care; autism spectrum disorders leading kids to have frequent “meltdowns” and other factors. A strong parallel to the current Trans Child craze. If we know any pediatricians or child psychs who can speak knowledgeably about this, it might do a lot of good.
Since the 80's the psychiatric community is always drumming up new trends on how to create lifelong patients. ADHD, BiPolar, borderline, and now Trans - all of these had their days when they were the most fashionable Dx to prescribe. All of them are supposed to be lifelong conditions.
Regarding # 2 recording - Drumming up of Advocacy of Transactivism in Psychiatry. Mental Health care SHOULD NOT be politicized across the board. Basically this woman is advocating that only a minute section of the population who believe in transgender
ideology be prioritized over every one else. To be sure there are huge groups of people - like foster children who could use the political advocacy of Psychiatrists. But no - a designer minority - mostly composed of privileged white people is in need of psychiatric backing.
What I keep wondering is IF Transition is the Best thing for people to improve their lives and gender dysphoria is not even needed for people to transition. Why are psychiatrists part of the movement or anything related to transitioning? I thought transitioning was supposed to SOLVE all their problems (snark).
It’s unbelievable, that last doctor talking about how her socially transitioned child could not bare the thought of going through puberty as a boy. Of course he couldn’t. He was given the mental framework that he was actually a girl. His parents, for loving reasons, did this to him. Their belief system, one that sooner or later will run into the guardrails of a real life sexed body, did this to him. So sad.
And hence the mom having to reassure herself in such emotional displays, and ask how to “help” others do the same to their kids.
She’s a physician, and she justified the use of non-evidence-based treatments for children with gender dysphoria by comparing them to the experimental treatments given to AIDS sufferers in the early years of the epidemic. I think someone must have looked at her aghast because it was at that point that she melted down emotionally.
People have so many un-examined unconscious issues that they bring along to these kinds of situations that they then use to process them. That was on full display with that mom, wasn’t it?
Yes, indeed, but I think most of us expect a medical doctor to reason better than this. Positional Standpoint Epistemology — the driving force behind a number of bad ideas that have gained currency in recent years — holds that lived experience of a condition or a problem confers superior expertise on that condition or problem. What we see here, though, is someone whose self-esteem as a parent demands tortured logic that leads her to consider her child’s psychological distress as akin to a terminal illness caused by a virus. Her involvement with and her investment in the medicalization of her child seems to have made her incapable of a logical or objective view of things, and yet there are more than a few people who would elevate her voice as one particularly worthy of attention. I don’t mean at all to suggest that affected parties have no meaningful input to offer — but the quality of thought by which that experience is interpreted matters immensely. Too many prominent voices are like hers: irrational, defensive, self-serving, emotionally manipulative — and ultimately misleading and unhelpful.
100% agreement.
Yup, social transition begins with assurances that changing gender ID is harmless. But it sets kids up for a crisis when puberty begins. Its child abuse. And parents who were led into this fraud expect others to bail them out from their misguided choice by leading others into it.
The suicide narrative has really poisoned the discourse in this area, hasn't it? It drives parents wild with terror, gives activists a handy way to motivate legislators, and makes disagreement seem cruel and heartless.
I think she was terrified having seen a sibling commit suicide when she was young and then seeing her child threaten it also. But yes, this child was primed to be absolutely terrified of puberty also, rather than taught how to get used to the only body he will ever have.
This is a sad example of someone caught in the "Oedipus Trap" described so well in the following Opinion piece:
What the world can learn from a lobotomy surgeon’s horrible mistake
By Megan McArdle
February 14, 2023 (Washington Post)
https://archive.is/AYcb8
Unbelievable. Over 20 papers? there were around 50 for each review (hormones, pubety blockers).
And Turban's referral to the summary...it wasn't news coverage the first questioner was quoting, it was Cass' summary of the systematic reviews.
He is quoting Chen et al, 2023? For benefit? Are you kidding? FTM small benefit, comparable with hormones, for 2 outcomes. **No benefit** for MTF. And yes, as the questioner mentioned, 2 suicides.
They hid 6 of the 8 psychosocial outcomes they said they'd report. Didn't report them at all.
https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/on-scientific-transparency-researcher (also links to part 2)
Great take down here: https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/15hhliu/the_chen_2023_paper_raises_serious_concerns_about/
Please have a transcription done of the recordings so we can read these if possible.
I know it s not easy too do and costly to have it done but a volunteer may be able to sit patiently and type up the words said by stopping the tape every few words; I have done it myself personally. Transcripts can also be useful to share these and in court cases.
Hi I have software that can transcribe these in less than an hour - please feel free to message me if you want help with this - no cost.
For the computer-savvy, here's free, high-quality transcription: https://analyzingalpha.com/openai-whisper-python-tutorial
It could also be uploaded to Youtube and then automatic captioning used. YT might take it down but the transcript can be saved before that happens.
you can upload to a private channel on youtube (associated with your account).
These recordings show that, despite what the medical institutions are saying in their press releases, physicians are having doubts--and they are starting to voice those doubts. That's progress.
I thought I recognized Drescher’s voice at around 25:25. It’s hard to understand how someone who has fought against conversion therapy for many decades is now advocating for transing gay kids. Elsewhere he has been heard saying he doesn’t think all that highly of Turban, and now he is laying his own legitimacy at Turban’s feet. Bizarre!
Drescher attacked Levine et al's paper saying informed consent was not working in the US because the clinicians were misinformed. The rebuttal to that ("What are we doing to these children"? by Levine et al., 2022) is excellent.
I hope that person who has medicalized her child because her child was suicidal has been informed that this intervention is not suicide prevention, so she can protect her child and make sure her child gets actual suicide prevention.
What a bogus argument Turban has in the first file. Correlation does not equal causation!
Absolutely what I was thinking. Anybody that is Trans and associated with activism is already in a pressure cooker of the fear-mongering of that community. They are constantly in a panic. And take every opportunity to drum up hysteria in their own communities in response to basic common-sense laws meant to protect the rights of the majority of the population.
What is so ridiculous about their response to the bathroom bill is that if a person passes as the other sex - no one is going to stop them from using the bathroom in public places. But if they do not pass - then them going in their same sex toilet is appropriate. Such ridiculous hysteria that they drum up in their own communities.
As far as workplace bathrooms - I guess that would be up to the HR. But honestly every office should have at least ONE Unisex bathroom available for the office.
It was interesting to be a fly on the wall. I’m curious how this “flash mob” of professionals came about. And thank you for not cutting out that emotional bit from the woman with the trans daughter.
I was impressed that the Canadian doctor mentioned one earlier psychiatric disaster: the “childhood bipolar” craze of the late 1990’s and early 2000’s. That diagnostic fad did tremendous harm to children through intensive use of anti-psychotic drugs. It also involved a blindness to other causes of distress: obvious severe trauma especially in kids in foster care; autism spectrum disorders leading kids to have frequent “meltdowns” and other factors. A strong parallel to the current Trans Child craze. If we know any pediatricians or child psychs who can speak knowledgeably about this, it might do a lot of good.
Since the 80's the psychiatric community is always drumming up new trends on how to create lifelong patients. ADHD, BiPolar, borderline, and now Trans - all of these had their days when they were the most fashionable Dx to prescribe. All of them are supposed to be lifelong conditions.
Regarding # 2 recording - Drumming up of Advocacy of Transactivism in Psychiatry. Mental Health care SHOULD NOT be politicized across the board. Basically this woman is advocating that only a minute section of the population who believe in transgender
ideology be prioritized over every one else. To be sure there are huge groups of people - like foster children who could use the political advocacy of Psychiatrists. But no - a designer minority - mostly composed of privileged white people is in need of psychiatric backing.
What I keep wondering is IF Transition is the Best thing for people to improve their lives and gender dysphoria is not even needed for people to transition. Why are psychiatrists part of the movement or anything related to transitioning? I thought transitioning was supposed to SOLVE all their problems (snark).